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The Tale Spinner Newsletter of the Tri-Area Flyers http://triarearc.org (AMA Charter Number 4063, Radio Controlled Model Aircraft Club) April 2009 Volume 9 Number 4 |
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Club Officers: Position Name Phone Number Term Expires President Greg Marken 360.779.7047 December 31, 2009 Vice President Bill Berson 360.379.5608 December 31, 2009 Secretary Lawrence Pendelton 360.379.1098 December 31, 2009 Treasurer Larry Berger 360.344.3549 December 31, 2009 Safety Officer Tim Bangle 360.437.8004 December 31, 2009 Web Master Roy Greene 360.830.4584 December 31, 2009 Director, Position 1 Pete Bruce 360.385.9789 December 31, 2010 Director, Position 2 Grant Smith 360.437.2162 December 31, 2009 Director, Position 3 Tom Cochran 360.385.3796 December 31, 2011
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MINUTES OF THE LAST MEETING
March 14th, 2009
Meeting Agenda
Opening meeting: Meeting was called to order by President Greg Marken at 7:05 pm.
Attending: Those members attending were Pendleton, Greene, Anliker, Hanke, Barras, Stephens, Calkins, C. Cook, J. Cook, Olson, Maupin, Carter, Marken, Berson, Bruce, Berger and Fitch.
Guests: Brad Hensley and…..Rufus Leaking.
Ye olde editor—is this for real??? I need to meet this person.Minutes posted on the web site, additions or corrections? Yes. There is an addendum needed here. This secretary is very sorry for leaving out a great big thank you to Pete Granger from all of us in the Tri-Area RC Flyers for a continued outstanding presentation on the web. Pete, get back here out of that blistering sun so that you can get your pin award!
Treasurers Report: Bank of America, checking account had a stamp expense of $ 8.40. The balance of that account is
$ 2,585.64. The CD at Quimper is holding at $ 5,079.10.
Safety Report: While "hangar flying" in the green building at the RC field, Bill Berson encountered a particular hazard at approximately 72 inches AFL (above floor level). He did maintain consciousness even though he was sorely sent into a spin after connecting his head to that mean ol’ low down dirty hangin’ door. He thought that he should bring that to our attention.
Old Business: Seth Stephens has been doing thorough research regarding the weather station at the Chimacum Middle School. Here is a copy of his findings and his suggestion for a best alternative location for a weather report for our flying field.
Since the weather conditions displayed on our web page are rarely even close to the actual conditions at the field. I met with Chris Martin, the school’s tech advisor and learned the following:
The weather station at Chimacum has been out of order for over a year.
No one knows who paid for the initial installation or when.
No one has any idea who is supposed to maintain the site and it hasn’t been touched for over a year.
The only function still operating is the inside temperature. Otherwise it is absolutely useless for our needs.
The readings we are getting are actually coming from the nearest operational National Weather Site in our vicinity. That could be Port Townsend, Whidbey Island, Poulsbo or Port Angeles. Since we don’t know which station the data is coming from it is useless to us.
Best alternative found is wunderground.com. Although the weather can’t pinpoint our field exactly it appears accurate for the referenced locations and may give you some idea of what to expect at the flying field. Just log on to wunderground.com, click on mobile weather and put in the following zip codes:
98368 (Port Townsend) gets you The Jefferson County
Courthouse (clock Tower)
98325 (Chimacum) shows Fager Hill Road in PT.
98365 (Port Ludlow) is SkunkBay and Hansville, WA
98358 (Nordland) gives you the papermill in PT.
New Business: Yes, moving on with more Seth. He is now officially approved for solo flying at the RC field. But, Bill Berson, his flying instructor, is not quite ready to sign off on Seth’s pilot certificate….just yet, maybe soon.
General: Pete Hanke says watch out for those great big white birds with the long necks. "Well, I’ll swan, says Pete", "landings near those wetlands are a little rough on the under carriage."
Crash of the Month: Who would have guessed that for the crash of the month prize there would be three in competition. Greg Marken’s strong vote for Pete Hanke closed with a unanimous agreement with all hands raised.
Raffle: Seth Stephens won a pre-crash certificate….
..how does one cash in on that certificate?
Service Award: None.
Before closing the business meeting, Greg Marken proposed the club’s reaching out to Robin McMillen by paying his club dues for 2009.
Meeting closed at 7:40 pm.
Program: Bill Berson presented the speaker for the evening who was our very own David Carter. David shared some very interesting stories about his father. David’s father, Alfred Williams Carter, 1894 to 1985, was a WWI Flying Ace
PUT DAVID’S PICTURE HERE – PLEASE
Ye olde editor: Lawrence sent me a very good picture of David all spiffied up in coat and tie. Unfortunately, his/ MSN Photo software does not seen to be compatible with my wonderful (if you believe that I have a bridge that is for sale) Windows Vista software. More whining will follow.And Pete, we hope you recovered from the sun burn.
FROM THE PRESIDENT’S HOBBY SHOP
First I would like to apologize for my last month’s contribution to the newsletter. I tweaked the page format just a bit and it did not translate well to print.
As March comes to an end and we pass the first day of spring, one would anticipate better weather. You should know better by now. The last snowfall only melted about a week ago and now we are into the windy rainy season. No sense in staying home and letting our airplanes collect any more dust. I would like to extend an invitation to the entire membership to bring your favorite airplane to the next meeting for static display and a bit of hanger talk. Two of our members will speak in more detail about their current projects. After the two formal presentations the floor will be open to talk about modeling, because that is what we do.
Respectfully,
Greg Marken
AROUND THE CLUB
J Dick Benjamin has a new e-mail address: richard4630@gmail.com
J From Bob Kampmann: Just to have some fun sometime, ask Jim Crumley why he's known as "Woody" in some parts of the world!
J From John Fitch: I'm not sure that I agree with the written word here. The SU-30 is obviously beyond the F-15 in performance, but I didn't see anything that it did that the F-22 hasn't done. However, many people do not believe that we need the F-22. It's a long way from the aircraft I knew when I was in the service! READ THE DESCRIPTION BELOW BEFORE VIEWING!
Russia now has by far the #1 fighter plane in the world...the SU-30- Vectored Thrust with 'Canards'. As you watch this airplane, look at the canards moving along side of, and just below the canopy rail. The "canards" are the small wings forward of the main wings. The smoke and contrails provide a sense of the actual flight path, sometimes in reverse direction. This video is of an in-flight demonstration flown by the Russian's-30MK fighter aircraft. You will not believe what you are about to see.
The fighter can stall from high speed, stopping forward motion in seconds (full stall). Then it demonstrates an ability to descend tail first without causing a compressor stall. It can also recover from a flat spin in less than a minute.
These maneuver capabilities don't exist in any other aircraft in the world today. Take a look at the video with the sound up. This aircraft is of concern to U.S. and NATO planners. We don't know which nations will soon be flying the SU-30MK; hopefully China isn't one of them.
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Note:
Friends worked with advanced aircraft flight control systems and concepts for many years as an extension of stability control and means of control.
Canards and vectored thrust were among many concepts examined to extend our fighter aircraft performance. Neither our current or next generation aircraft now poised for funding & production can in any way match the performance of this Russian aircraft NOW FLYING in any near combat situation. Somehow the bankrupt Russian aircraft industry has out-produced our complex politically tainted aerospace industry with this technology marvel.
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2008/11/usaf-pilot-describes-iaf-su30m.html
J From Lawrence Pendelton:
Ye olde editor: Lawrence sent me a neat picture of a bunch of the gang at the flying field—another victim of our software incompatibility.
NEW MEMBERS
I hope to obtain a brief bio and a picture of our new members to enhance their introduction to the membership. This is voluntary on the part of the newbie, but it should be beneficial for all.
HINTS, KINKS, AND STUFF
J From Jack Brown, a retired airline pilot and old friend:
F 35 & F-22
http://vimeo.com/3437045
Ye olde editor: This is a rather slow download even on my new broadband system, but the flight pictures are worth the wait.
SPARKS
Ye olde editor: I have eliminated a lot of my usual drivel to make space for a paper developed by old friend and past member Russ Petersen. Russ and I hope you find the information useful.
Simplified Electrical Power Systems
For
Model Airplanes
By
Russ Petersen
February 23, 2009
This following material1 is intended to be a non-technical introductory guide to understanding and selecting model airplane electric power systems. Some liberties have been taken with precise definitions in order to provide practical and workable terms useful for developing electric power systems for model airplanes.
How electric motors work – An electric motor consists of a fixed magnet, a magnet that is free to rotate around the fixed magnet and a timing device that can turn one of the magnets on and off. The rotating magnet may be energized with the application of electrical current. By taking advantage of the inherent opposite-pole features of magnets and by arranging the two magnets properly the electric magnet can be switched on an off to cause mechanical rotation to occur.
Some recommended simple power guidelines:
Scale flying power requirements – 70 Watts per pound of loaded airplane.
Sport flying power requirements – 100 Watts per pound of loaded airplane.
3D flying power requirements – 130 or more Watts per pound of loaded airplane.
(These numbers are empirical and are derived from experience. They are generally accepted in the electric flying community as good guidelines to assemble an electric power system.)
An alternative approach to determining required watts:
Or, here is an alternative approach based on glow motor type and displacement provided by Greg Kamysz of Maxx Products (f http://www.maxproducts.com/)for picking the right power requirement when setting up a glow powered airplane with an electric power system that may be useful: 2
"We can also approximate the required power based on engine displacement. A survey of available engines resulted in the chart below in terms of watt per cubic inch displacement (W/ci)
Sport 2 or 4 cycle engines 1250 W/ci
Ball bearing 2 cycle engines 1500 W/ci
High performance 2C/4C 1800 W/ci
Racing, ducted fan 4000 W/ci
Multiply the displacement of the recommended engine by the W/ci rating to find the amount of power required of the electric motor system. For example; a .40 plain bearing engine will make .40ci X 1250/ci = 500W of power. Consider that many .40 size trainer models weight 6 lbs, the power loading works out to be 83 W/lb."
An example:
Assume that you have a glow powered kit (ARF or otherwise) that is intended for a 40 sized 2-stroke motor and is expected to weigh 5 pounds when ready to fly. Assume that you intend to fly the plane with an electric power system as a "sport" model, so it must do standard aerobatics easily and let’s assume that we would like it to be capable of flying 10 minutes on a typical flight.
Assume that the weight of the plane with an electric system installed will be similar to the weight that would exist with glow power. This is usually close enough to work out the electric components that would be needed to fly such a plane. Our airplane manufacturer says the plane will weigh between 4.75 pounds and 5.25 pounds, so we will guess that 5 pounds is a good estimate of its weight with the electrical power system installed.
Wattage required (sport flying): 100 X 5 = 500 watts
Possible amperage and voltage (Lipo assumed) combinations to generate 500 watts at takeoff:
2 lipo cell pack: 2 X 3.7 = 7.4 Volts, 500/7.4 = 67 amps required
3 lipo cell pack: 3 X 3.7 = 11.1 Volts, 500/11.1 = 45 amps required
4 lipo cell pack: 4 X 3.7 = 14.8 Volts, 500/14.8 = 34 amps required.
5 lipo cell pack: 5 X 3.7 = 18.5 Volts, 500/18.5 = 27 amps required
And so forth.
Something should be said here about weight of the packs as they increase in size. The following information is based on Hyperion CX 18C/30C Lipoly cells (http://www.allerc.com/index.php?cPath=3_4_93):
|
Pack Size |
Voltage |
Capacity |
Weight (OZ) |
Weight/cell |
|
2S |
7.4 |
4250 |
7 |
4 |
|
3S |
11.1 |
4250 |
11 |
4 |
|
4S |
14.8 |
4250 |
13 |
3 |
|
5S |
18.5 |
4250 |
17 |
3 |
Notice that the weight per cell is around 4 ounces in these packs. If we add a cell to a pack, we also add a nominal 3.7V to the pack, which if we assume a 30 amperage load produces 3.7 X 30 = 111 additional Watts. Under our sport assumption of 100 Watts/pound of power required, the 111 Watts would add a weight carrying capacity of 1.1 pounds. So, we gain about 3 to 4 times more power than we do weight for each additional cell added. So, unlike glow or gas power options, usually an additional cell in electric flying is more than covered by the additional power provided.
Assume that we want to use a 40 amp speed control which is rated to handle up to 4S voltage. For best efficiency, this would mean that we would need a 4 cell lipo power set-up in order to safely develop the 500 watts necessary to fly the plane as a sport flyer. Also, this 4S pack may provide too much voltage to use a BEC on the speed control so we may need a separate BEC or we may need a separate on-board battery to power the receiver and the servos. If we had chosen a 3S pack, we probably could have used the BEC in the speed control to deliver power to the servos and the receiver. The BEC in most speed controls currently available will only work in 3S or smaller voltage packs. A limited number (called "switching BECs") are becoming available that can handle more voltage and still provide proper voltage to a receiver.
We also need a battery with a discharge capacity (C rating) that will meet or exceed the expected 34 amps provided in our calculation and that will provide the needed 10 minutes of flight. Let’s assume that for an average flight we will require 50% of takeoff power or 250 watts of power (50% if full power). That means that we would be drawing about ½ of the 34 amp takeoff power or 17 amps on average during a flight. So, 10mins/60mins X 17 = 2.8 amps for a flight. This means a 2800 milliamp capacity battery. Remember that the battery discharge rating (C rating) is a function of the Mah capacity of the battery. (Required discharge capacity {takeoff amperage rate} = (C) (Mah of pack in amps). Or, to solve for the needed C, C = (takeoff amperage rate)/ (Mah of pack in amps) = 34/2.8 = 12.1. So our battery needs a minimum C rating of 12.1, needs to be a 4 cell lipo with a minimum of 2800 milliamp capacity. Probably a 15C 3000 4S1P pack would work nicely in this application. Alternatively a 15C 3000 4S2P pack consisting of 8 lipo cells each with a 3.7 volt and 1500 Mah capacity would provide the same thing. A table provided at the end of this paper provides this calculation in a simplified format.
Lastly, we need to select a motor that will be capable of delivering at least 500 watts of power. I would usually choose a 600 watt motor in a situation like this to provide some slack. One nice thing about electric motors is that the weight penalty paid for installing a slightly larger motor is usually quite small, and the slack provides some flexibility in final set up. I have a preference for out runner motors as well, since they run slowly enough to eliminate the need for a gearbox to obtain efficient propeller speed.
After the power system is installed, set-up will always require running the power system with a variety of propellers to obtain the takeoff amperage that was planned for the system. Propeller loading (and therefore amperage draw) can be changed by altering either the diameter or pitch (or both) of a propeller. Don’t skip this important step before you go flying. Establishing the proper amperage rate will protect your entire power system from damage and will give you the sport performance that you planned for at the beginning of this exercise. One should be sure that the propeller selected is stressed for the rpm intended. For example, APC notes in the safety section of their website (http://www.apcprop.com) that the maximum rpm for their thin electric props is equal to 190,000 divided by the prop diameter. This also includes folding propellers. The maximum rpm for a slow flier prop by APC is equal to 65,000 divided by the prop diameter. This means that a 10 inch diameter thin electric may be run to a maximum rpm of 19,000 while a slow flier prop of the same length could only run a maximum of 6,500 rpm.
The easiest way to take the amperage measure of a system is with a watt meter, several of which are available on the hobby market. I use a meter sold by Astro Flight, (http://www.astroflight.com/) but many other good meters are around. The meter is temporarily installed between the battery and the speed control and when the power system with the propeller installed is run a full throttle, the meter will provide the amperage information you require to make a final propeller selection.
After setting a proper amperage load to deliver planned watts, some flyers also prefer to use a tachometer to verify the actually rpm and thrust that the system is generating at the propeller. One should remember that such an rpm measure is static and that propellers unload in flight between 10% and 25% so the static rpm is only an approximation of the rpm that would be obtained in flight. One thrust calculator has been provided by the Licking County Radio Control Club at (http://www.lcrcc.net/thrust_calc.htm). Using the RPM obtained at full throttle in this calculator will provide an estimate of the amount of thrust that your power system will provide.
So, in summary our calculations have yielded the following choices:
a 4S Lipo pack with a minimum C rating of 15,
a 40 Amp speed control that is capable of handling 4S voltage,
a separate BEC or a separate onboard battery to power the receiver and the servos and
a brushless out runner motor capable of delivering 600 watts.
MONTHLY MEETING—April 8 at 7:00 in the SKP Clubhouse
The officers will likely gather at 6:30 to brew up some mischief for the general membership.
From Bill Berson:
For the April program: Pete Hanke will show his rotary valve engine.
Also, Seth Stephens and Brad Hensley may have models to show.
Pete Granger
granger@olypen.com


Lawrence cold weather flyers . David Carter speaks of his father the WW11 Flyer.